Denmark in troubled water
Sunday, January 29, 2006 at 08:29PM 
Given the fact that the majority of my readers are English speaking I am finding it hard to provide links which describe the events as they take place but more crucialle as they have actually been taken place up until now. Below are some links to BBC articles which gives a reasonable overview of the flurry ...
Saudis recall envoy in Danish row
Muslim anger at Danish cartoons
What has actually happened?
Cartoons in a Danish newspaper
Four months ago the Danish newspaper Jyllandsposten posted 8 12 drawings of the muslim prophet depicting him as they saw him but with a clear provocative bordering to tactless zeal ... the most notable drawing was one showing Muhammed, with a turban containing a large bomb.
The cartoons resulted in immediate protests and demonstrations from Muslims in Denmark, but to sum it all up; two very important things happened as a result of the drawings.
1. Ten muslim ambassadors approached the Danish Prime Minister in an open letter demanding that he should condemn the newspaper's actions and consequently give his apologies on behalf of Denmark to Danish muslims as well as muslims abroad. What did the Danish PM answer to this ... ? Essentially the only answer he could give - given the principles of freedom of speech and press polticians in Denmark cannot interfere with what is printed in newspapers; the public opinion decides!
2. ... and perhaps most importantly the drawings spawned a public debate in which not the nature of our society and democracy was questioned but a sound debate on the need to display tact and respect for other cultures. This debate was/is good as it outlined some important things concerning the Danish society; i.e. not only muslims thought that Jyllandsposten had gone too far. Obviously this should be seen a bigger picture and perspective which has something to do with the general tone and voice in Denmark concerning particularly the muslim minority.
There is no doubt that these drawings put fire on an already slumbering fire. Danes do not hate muslims nor do we regard them as unwelcome in our society, but that admittedly misses the fact that muslims in Denmark on a whole often are related to and blamed for all sorts of unfortunes and crimes, and as such I can see why muslims in Denmark sometimes feel unwelcome. It is the classic case of blaming the group for the faults of one or two members.
Where are we now then?
Until a couple of days ago the debate had continued in the outskirts of the public agenda with the most notable contribution being some current and former Danish diplomats and ambassadors stating that Denmark's debate and tone concerning muslims could potentially damage Denmark's international reputation in the Arab world - boy they were going to be vindicated on that one.
What apparently really got the things cooking was a re-print of the drawings in a Norwegian newspaper which in the last couple of days has prompted ...
1. A boykot on all Danish goods in Saudi-Arabia and Kuwait with other states in the region saying they will follow suit. This is really the bulk of the reaction against Denmark and the one that hurts most (apart from the flag burning:(). The big Danish food producer Arla is really under strain and is currently losing mill. Dkr 10 a day, and other large Danish cooperations are beginning to feel effects as well.
2. Saudi-Arabia and Lebanon have re-drawn their ambassadors from Danish soil which essentially makes this a diplomatic crisis.
3. Misinformation/propaganda is spreading; i.e. all Danes and Scandinavians hate muslims and want to kill and exterminate them. This is of course not flowing from official sources but there have been a large surge of internet sites, SMS messages and leaflets with the message above.
The demands are clear as they are impossible to follow; a formal/official apology from the Danish government in which it distances itself from the drawings ....
What should Denmark do then ?
I probably should spend more time providing my own view on this matter but then again my view is very simple. NO concessions what so ever can be given. Danish interest organizations and stakeholders are wobbling at the moment, I am not; ... we must not and essentially cannot give them what they want ... I am sorry!
Comment added 22.32 PM -
One important point which does not show above is the fact that I actually think the drawings are spot-on in terms of capturing a crucial part of the (global) debate on Islam; Not because I associate Islam with terrorism Not because Islam is a terrorist religion but because many terrorists invoke Islam as the vessel and essentially legitimizing factor of terrorist acts. This is exactly what is captured in the drawings. In Denmark the debate dealt with showing respect towards our muslim minority, and rightly so, but in a broader perspective muslims should ponder the reasons why Muhammed and Islam often are associated with bombs and terrorism?
CV
Someone daring to say more than I ... ?
Reader Comments (21)
do we post erronious article after eronnious article and slanderous Cartoons targetting all Christians,...
of course not, wouldnt want to offend our friends and neighbors.
When Hindi mobs burn 10,000 Sihk men women and children alive, or Tamils take out another crowded marketplace,....
do we post erronious article after eronnious article and slanderous Cartoons targetting all Christians,...
of course not, Indias a very important trading partner, wouldnt want to offend our supplier and marketplace.
There are 2 Billion Muslims in the world, the great majority who live peaceful lives, for the most free of extremist violence,
there is at best, a couple hundred thousand freaks who believe in violent extremist Islam,......... and Ièm afraid that in the United States alone, you will find more violent extremist Christians than that and they are much better armed.
So why all this hand wringing and discussion about a so called violent Islam,..... its certainly not because the violence is unique to Islam,..... not is it because some qurias of the Koran can be interpreted as condoning extremist violence,..... every religious text, (even Buddist ones) can, have and are being selectively interpreted by violent fundimentalists to excuse and justify their violence.
The sole reason that we have these so called discussions of Violent Islam, is that there is a meme being promoted in the West of a clash of cultures in which the West is under attack by violent Islam.
It really speaks to our own racism, ignorance and tribalism that a struggle, where in our Armies and Corporations have been in occupation of their land, resources and economies for in some cases, over 100 years, and in a struggle that is primarially taking place outside the front doors of their homes, in the streets of their cities, whole continents away from our homes, our cities,...
is accepted as the West being under attack.
One does not use political cartoons for dialoge, political cartoons are for statements, a quick means of getting a chosen point across, are usually exaggerated, and what humor exists is usually slanted towards an extreme of bias.
Had the cartoons been of a Mullah, Osama Bin Laden, an Islamic terrorist, they would have been seen by Islam as no big deal.
But the cartoons were deliberately of Mohammed, and in Islam, it is a grave blasphemy to depict the human form of God, or Mohammed. As such, the cartoons were deliberatly constructed to offend and enrage,.... not illustrate or or prompt dialoge. I would not consider opening an attempt at dialoge with anyone, through the use of extremist insults. Its not polite, nor is it productive.
I fully expect as the backlash grows, as the story beomes both more violent, and more grounded in popular myths and fears on both sides, that ignorance about the depiction of the Prophet will be raised as an excuse.
It is after all, a common trend in the West, to write supposed authoratative or supposedly insightful articles about a subject one is completely ignorant about and pass it off as journalism.
There is either freedom of expression or there isn't. I think one could condemn these cartoons for a variety of reasons, but I don't see the point of concessions either. Just as Vatican-owned newspapers have the right to print openly anti-Semitic cartoons, these newspapers are allowed to post these cartoons.
It's also interesting, because a number of Muslims would not disagree with the portrayal of Mohammed in this way, once one gets over the Muslim prohibition of portrayal of Mohammed at all. After all, Mohammed did bring a sword, did fight wars of conquest and sanction wars of conquest by the caliphs, and was a revolutionary bomb-thrower. All founders of major monotheistic religions have been metaphorical bomb-throwers, if not literal ones. Mohammed is different only in the sense that he himself led armies and killed people both in judicial and under warlike conditions.
I don't actually think the cartoons are helpful either, but a major way that freedom of speech actually developed was through the use of blasphemy, and as such, people just have to get used to having their religion blasphemed if they want to live in a free society. I for one want to live in a free society, so I agree that there should be no actions and no concessions.
Speaking of erroneous! When did mobs burn "10,000 Sikhs" alive? There are one billion, not two billion, Muslims in the world. And considering that 60% of the British Muslim population in a poll recently wanted Sharia law introduced in Britain, I suspect it is a lot more than a couple hundred thousand of that billion who promote violence.
You are 100% wrong when you say editorial cartoonists avoid offending Christians, Hindus, etc. The difference is that Muslims are the only ones who immediately start making death threats (the religion of peace strikes again!). The cartoonists are allowed to make fun of everyone else: Jesus (who by the way is traditionally sacred in European and Danish culture) but NOT Mohammed! You are asking for special treatment for Muslims. We can't allow that.
Freedom of speech does not mean saying only things everyone agrees with.Freedom of speech means saying what you think.
I am proud of the Danes for sticking up for freedom of speech. I am ashamed that the rest of the civilized world is not reproducing that cartoon as a sign of support. The people who would kill a Dane for a cartoon are enemies of us all.
I will be more impressed by the demands of muslim leaders to remove 'offense' when they issue the same demands to imams who call Jews "sons of pigs and monkeys" on nationally-paid for broadcasts.
Those who would use a cartoon as a pretext for killing a Dane are indeed enemies of us all.
What exactly is a "terrorist religion"? A religion that terrorists subscribe to? Most subscribe to Islam. OK, check. Is it a religion that advocates voilence against non-believers? Yes, Islam does that. Check.
Want to know more about Islam. Check out www.faithfreedom.org.
Finally, some claim that freedom of speech and expression does not extend to criticising religions and hurting religious peoples' sentiments. But then shouldn't religious freedom also be similarly circumscribed? Why is it that Islam can have the "religious freedom" to heap invective and vile epithets on idol-worshippers like me -- a peaceful person myself -- and vow to kill me (merely because I don't bow to their Allah) without any provocation? How about calling the Koran (Quran) for the piece of terrorist manual it is and prohibiting its publication?
The moment Denmark capitulates and apologizes officiall, I will know that Europe can be written off: it has lost to the terrorist dogma called Islam.
Apart from the fiction of 2 billion Muslims already pointed out, even a cursory look at the Muslim world will show that the great majority of Muslims who live peacefully are in areas where they do not have to deal with non-Muslims. Everywhere else, it's a different story. The Muslim world has bloody borders...
I have not studied the theology of Islam enough to be able to distinguish whether this violence indicates a problem with the religion or its followers. Irrespective of the explanation, this is the reality.
The second reality is that while there are many rights that are important to the functioning of any democracy, none is more important or crucial than the freedom of speech.Denmark should not give up on this freedom.
See the post below from a Fistful of Euros for a description and discussion of the new chain of events ...
http://fistfulofeuros.net/archives/002338.php
Westerns are very weak, I never found one of them can stand against the proofs of islam, and because of that they simply close their eyes, and try to make common people to stay away from thinking rationally by saying words like: Fundamentalist, Extremist, Terrorist...
But be sure that, many christians are converting every day, because human being was created to worship God, and the God put inside each of us the desire to be truthful and honest.
If you people will stay talking without thinking, you actually deserve to be Christians.
The thinking is very simple, and that why you really deserve to go to hell.
It is very difficult to miss the truth, but you are really dishonest, because you westerns are denying the unseen without any proof.
What is the unseen? It is the judgement day. And how did you deny that? By saying that you are free. Freedom has three shapes. Freedom to think, freedom to act, and freedom from punishment.
When you are not allowed to know about the real islam, you are actually not free to think. That could be by propaganda or by your own desires. When you cannot act then that could be by contrains or disabilities. And actually all of us cannot do many things like going inside the walls. Freedom of punishment is a negative argument which says: I can behave freely and I will get no punishment. You think you was created on this earth to hurt others whithout punishment? proof it. I dare you all to proof that you will not get punished by your own bad deeds. Stupid people tells me, you proof we will, actually I have proofs, but they will not accept it, because they are stupid. Actually I am not saying now in this comment that you are wrong, but only that you have no proof for your freedom from punishment. So why you are saying you are free?
That is the whole proof that you westerns are hypocrates, and ill-minded. You try to convince people about something you cannot proof. You are just stupid as the christians who want to proof that the God was stupid to the degree he create sinful people and send his only begotton son (if any) to be killed to salvate them. Simply, they cannot proof that, because they cannot proof the integrity of the bible as one unchanged unit of book.
Jay's comment is part of the problem. Exactly how does one explain the Madrid bombings then? Spain and its corporations haven't been in occupation of Arab lands for the last hundred years (unless you count Ceuta and Melilla).
One does not really need to explain Spain in that reagard, for Terrorists, any terror will do. One also tends to forget that up until the 1960s Spain too had colonies in Arab Africa and maintains enclaves to this day. Spain if you remember, despite the overwhelming rejection of the Invasion of Iraq, had troops in Iraq as well.
wumingshr wrote:
Speaking of erroneous! When did mobs burn "10,000 Sikhs" alive?
after the assination of Indira Ghandi over 15,000 Sihks were killed in the rioting that followed, much of it organised by Hundi Nationalist political parties, many men and young boys were dragged out of their homes, bound and beaten by mobs, tires were placed around their necks and set on fire, their wives , sisters and children were forced to watch.
he also wrote:
You are 100% wrong when you say editorial cartoonists avoid offending Christians, Hindus, etc. The difference is that Muslims are the only ones who immediately start making death threats (the religion of peace strikes again!). The cartoonists are allowed to make fun of everyone else: Jesus (who by the way is traditionally sacred in European and Danish culture) but NOT Mohammed! You are asking for special treatment for Muslims. We can't allow that.
As we now know, this very paper refused to run cartoons of Jesus on the grounds that their Lutheran Christian readership would find it offensive.
If one remembers the Last Temptation of Christ opening in Paris, Christian terrorists firebombed the theater, killing one, permanently crippling 3 and badly burning 13 others.
The Last Temptation of Christ, and many other events and programs which have been attacked and recieved death threats, are in no manner deliberate attempt to offend, but are instead, attemps to illustrate discrepancies between the various Gospels. Christian boycotts of programs, sponsors and companies are a daily fact of life in the West, and have become so common that only the most rediculus of the boycotts, or the most errgious rate mention in the Press.
The Danish Government spent 14 years attempting to use the Blasphemy Laws to stop a Danish Film maker from producing a controversial film on Jesus, only losing the case in Court this year.
It has been only recently that in the West, one has become free in some reagards to criticise Christianity, (The last conviction under the Balsphemy Laws in Denmark was 1938), but one is not free to insult Christianity, with out repercussions.
don't give in one inch denmark.
As we have been witnessing lately, the belief of the extremists not only make them look and sound like apes. If they were to acquire control of nuclear weaponry, humanity would surely soon be living like apes again, if being around at all. Let us make sure our children will never fall in the hands of these human animals.
And let us not forget, that tolerating the intolerant Muslim extremists is de facto both repressive tolerance towards the democracy seeking moderate Muslims, and completely incompatible with democracy, capitalism and freedom of speech. Let them never keep us from helping those in real need, and let theme not ever cut our tongues. En garde!
A quick question for your holiness’:
What do you think of these beheadings of young women? - and of the beheaded baby in the arms of the beheaded mother?
http://cuddlynecrobabes.com/mh/middle_east.htm
- committed in the name of the prophet Mohammed. Could the beheaded be considered "rats in the hole"?
If you find the beheadings appropriate, do you think this would also be the proper response to for instance imams who lie internationally, causing many deaths in demonstrations around the world?
And if you do not find the beheadings appropriate, would you personally approach those who do the beheadings, even today?
PLEASE let us know - you see we really want to know you better - to know better how to better deal with your personal kind of Islam...
Raw Connick
http://freedomforegyptians.blogspot.com/2006/02/egyptian-newspaper-pictures-that.html Moreover there have been other depictions of the profet in the past as well as in quite recent times, and some of them far more offensive and none of them has inspired such reaction
href="http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
Muslims are responible for more crime then the christian, sikh and hindu asian immigrants put together.
Muslims claim more benefits then any other immigrant group. This is mainly because they marry their cousin in pakistan and culture tell thems that she cannot work so she claims benefits. Then she has children, more benefits, she has a daughter, who goes to school & college, more benefits. Does she work after to pay back to society?? No, she marry's her cousin in pakistan and brings him over here.
I mean, why come to the UK and start a family here, if your going to be killed!
As for the employment, you are also correct, but most muslims claim job seekers allowance in the UK legally as they say that they need to Pray 5 times a day and no-one will employ them under these conditions.
<a href="http://www.pokermaniak.com.pl/Inne.html" title="hyvitys pokeri" >premija nagrada doklada darmowe Bônus</a>
texas W razie problemów prob le bestepnych w promocji "holdem възнаграждение bez depozytu</strong> log free cash owaniu się na swoim koncie tego sponsora przejdź do rubryki >>>Which no deposit poker bonuses can I get?<<< i kliknij >>>Show me the list<<< , wtedy automatycznie pojawi się lista bonuses dost ępnych platform mansion pokerow.
<a href="http://www.pokermaniak.com.pl/Inne.html" title="pokerprofesor bonus CDpoker free" >Bônus de Pôquer </a>
texas W razie problemów